Comments on: The Cirrus Killer http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/ Ron's the name. Aviation's the game. Sun, 07 Mar 2010 15:12:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Pat http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/comment-page-1/#comment-19798 Pat Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:25:19 +0000 http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/#comment-19798 Removing the primary instruments from the Cirrus is nuts! One of the first events where a pilot pulled the parachute on a Cirrus was where he found his Garmin 1000 display went wonky on him - the entire display was flashing and carrying on ...... so the idiot pulled his parachute. This plane was installed with the primary instruments but the pilot/owner (typical individual who probably is a green pilot) panicked and pulled the parachute. Now, if they no longer fit the basic instruments what happens when the Garmin 1000 hiccups? That's nuts! The Cirrus is merely a Grumman Tiger on steroids anyway - it's not my favorite plane. Any aircraft that needs brakes to steer and then has brake fires which set fire to the airframe is a dumb idea - but removing the primary instruments is a really dumb thing to do. Removing the primary instruments from the Cirrus is nuts! One of the first events where a pilot pulled the parachute on a Cirrus was where he found his Garmin 1000 display went wonky on him – the entire display was flashing and carrying on …… so the idiot pulled his parachute. This plane was installed with the primary instruments but the pilot/owner (typical individual who probably is a green pilot) panicked and pulled the parachute. Now, if they no longer fit the basic instruments what happens when the Garmin 1000 hiccups?
That’s nuts!
The Cirrus is merely a Grumman Tiger on steroids anyway – it’s not my favorite plane. Any aircraft that needs brakes to steer and then has brake fires which set fire to the airframe is a dumb idea – but removing the primary instruments is a really dumb thing to do.

]]> By: Rob http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/comment-page-1/#comment-19773 Rob Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:17:27 +0000 http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/#comment-19773 Cessna catch up to Eclipse??? Wrong on two counts at least. The Mustang isn't a "VLJ" and to my knowledge has never been advertised by them as such. Second, Eclipse has yet to produce even one completely certified aircraft or accrue one fleet hour of usage on a production airframe. As far as a "very late start" Cessna doesn't usually announce things that haven't been cooking in secret for some time. It'd be wrong to think they're ever late to the party. Cessna catch up to Eclipse??? Wrong on two counts at least. The Mustang isn’t a “VLJ” and to my knowledge has never been advertised by them as such. Second, Eclipse has yet to produce even one completely certified aircraft or accrue one fleet hour of usage on a production airframe. As far as a “very late start” Cessna doesn’t usually announce things that haven’t been cooking in secret for some time. It’d be wrong to think they’re ever late to the party.

]]> By: Grant http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/comment-page-1/#comment-19769 Grant Sun, 06 Aug 2006 21:04:17 +0000 http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/#comment-19769 Ron, in regards to the profit margin on the single engine line at Cessna, there are some other aspects of developing a product for the market other than the profit margin. Did you know that Cessna never made a dime on the Cessna 150/152 line of airplanes when they first rolled off the line? Their goal was to mass produce these cheap, single engine trainers such that they flooded the market with their product. While they didn't make any money on the 152's they produced, they got their product and name on the market, and when pilots decided to buy their own airplane, guess what they bought? The Cessna 172 or 182, which Cessna DID make money on. Something about a brand name.... Anyway, just an interesting fact. I'm not sure if Cessna can pull off the same feat these days, as I believe there are too many players in the market. -Grant Ron, in regards to the profit margin on the single engine line at Cessna, there are some other aspects of developing a product for the market other than the profit margin.

Did you know that Cessna never made a dime on the Cessna 150/152 line of airplanes when they first rolled off the line?

Their goal was to mass produce these cheap, single engine trainers such that they flooded the market with their product. While they didn’t make any money on the 152’s they produced, they got their product and name on the market, and when pilots decided to buy their own airplane, guess what they bought? The Cessna 172 or 182, which Cessna DID make money on.

Something about a brand name….

Anyway, just an interesting fact. I’m not sure if Cessna can pull off the same feat these days, as I believe there are too many players in the market.

-Grant

]]> By: Aaron http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/comment-page-1/#comment-19768 Aaron Fri, 04 Aug 2006 23:44:09 +0000 http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/#comment-19768 I doubt Cessna would ever leave the single engine piston market. They have a number of good contracts with many organizations for small aircraft (Civil Air Patrol comes to mind,) are ever popular, and it looks like they're going to be in the Sport market soon. The new "Cirrus Killer" (Great name!) will probably do well, but I think the LSA is going to be a hit. It has the Cessna name, and is going to be available to a lot of pilots, mainly due to a lower cost, lower rate of fuel consumption, and sport eligibility. I believe Cessna would do really well selling something like an updated 150, and this may be it. I know I want one! Nice read! I doubt Cessna would ever leave the single engine piston market. They have a number of good contracts with many organizations for small aircraft (Civil Air Patrol comes to mind,) are ever popular, and it looks like they’re going to be in the Sport market soon.

The new “Cirrus Killer” (Great name!) will probably do well, but I think the LSA is going to be a hit. It has the Cessna name, and is going to be available to a lot of pilots, mainly due to a lower cost, lower rate of fuel consumption, and sport eligibility. I believe Cessna would do really well selling something like an updated 150, and this may be it. I know I want one!

Nice read!

]]> By: Ron http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/comment-page-1/#comment-19767 Ron Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:08:31 +0000 http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/#comment-19767 Grant, you make a good point about the Citation experience. They already had engineers on staff, production facilities built, subcontractors in place, etc. Plus they can defray those costs over the various Citation models. GC, I hope you're right. I'm just glad that Cessna has made the decision not to give up on the single engine market. It seems to me that the profit margin on the single engine line may not be worth the effort. Or at least, that such an arguement could be made. I was concerned that they'd look at what it would take to compete with Cirrus and Columbia and elect to say "the hell with it" and focus on the Citation line. Grant, you make a good point about the Citation experience. They already had engineers on staff, production facilities built, subcontractors in place, etc. Plus they can defray those costs over the various Citation models.

GC, I hope you’re right. I’m just glad that Cessna has made the decision not to give up on the single engine market. It seems to me that the profit margin on the single engine line may not be worth the effort. Or at least, that such an arguement could be made. I was concerned that they’d look at what it would take to compete with Cirrus and Columbia and elect to say “the hell with it” and focus on the Citation line.

]]> By: GC http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/comment-page-1/#comment-19765 GC Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:59:49 +0000 http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/#comment-19765 I'm not sure Cessna needs a "Cirrus Killer." I believe that Cessna has a big enough following that a new aircraft such as what's pictured will draw quite a bit of excitement on its own. Cessna's delivered over 6,000 new aircraft since they re-started single-engine manufacturing a decade ago, and that says a lot. There's more than enough room for both Cessna and Cirrus in the "truly new" aircraft category. Can't wait to see the new Cessna! I’m not sure Cessna needs a “Cirrus Killer.” I believe that Cessna has a big enough following that a new aircraft such as what’s pictured will draw quite a bit of excitement on its own. Cessna’s delivered over 6,000 new aircraft since they re-started single-engine manufacturing a decade ago, and that says a lot. There’s more than enough room for both Cessna and Cirrus in the “truly new” aircraft category.

Can’t wait to see the new Cessna!

]]> By: Grant http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/comment-page-1/#comment-19764 Grant Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:11:19 +0000 http://www.rapp.org/archives/2006/07/cirrus_killer/#comment-19764 I agree, Cessna has their work cut out for them if they plan to catch Cirrus. While the airplane pictured in your post may have a few "Cirrus like" features, it is definitely Cessna. It also looks like they will provide a roomier cabin, as evidenced by the aft entry doors. As for Cessna catching up with Eclipse, there is one thing you forgot to mention. Cessna has decades worth of experience and Eclipse started from scratch. The Mustang has so much "Citation" in the manufacturing and design that it's really a stretch to say it's a fresh sheet of paper airplane. Good post! -Grant I agree, Cessna has their work cut out for them if they plan to catch Cirrus.

While the airplane pictured in your post may have a few “Cirrus like” features, it is definitely Cessna. It also looks like they will provide a roomier cabin, as evidenced by the aft entry doors.

As for Cessna catching up with Eclipse, there is one thing you forgot to mention. Cessna has decades worth of experience and Eclipse started from scratch. The Mustang has so much “Citation” in the manufacturing and design that it’s really a stretch to say it’s a fresh sheet of paper airplane.

Good post!

-Grant

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