Comments on: Thunderbird Crash

By: Jon

Jon — Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:01:52 +0000

The Thunderbird pilot in the video works with me in the Pentagon. He did not lose his wings.

By: gary

gary — Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:44:30 +0000

As far as the THunderbird photo, it’s real. The photographer was in an unused tower on the other side of the runway (which can be seen in the video clip).
I know the photo is authentic because in the un-cropped version of the photo we can see our parked car in the background. I also videoed the crash that day ( I lost focus when aiming towards the sun when he was at the top of his loop so had to zoom way-back, the plane coming into focus when he was about 1000ft off the ground).

By: Luke

Luke — Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:27:31 +0000

I have the video of F-18 crash at El Toro on VHS only..

Both crashes were pretty much the same from a physics standpoint. Both jets came out of looping manuvers too low, and altho the nose of the planes were angled upwards, the inertia power kept pulling the planes down to the ground and they pancaked.

The thing I find amazing (actually, it’s all pretty damn amazing), is that you see the Thunderbird F-16 completely explode when it hits the ground.. but in the F-18 crash, the aircraft stays largely intact and just skids down the runway.

By: tom werner

tom werner — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:47:56 +0000

pilots name at el toro was jerry cadick
do you have the video?

By: Jason D

Jason D — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:36:38 +0000

I have been a digital artist for over 10 years. I can take any digital picture and make it look like whatever I want. Im an expert at Photoshop, illistrator, 3D studio max, and Myia.

I can tell you that this photo is real. If you dont think it is then thats your bad. I challage ANYONE to make a fake that I cant tell is fake.

By: JOE DUPONT

JOE DUPONT — Wed, 31 Aug 2005 03:57:50 +0000

I DO NOT DOUBT THE INCIDENT TOOK PLACE.
tHERE IS JUST TOO MUCH RESOLUTION ON CERTAIN PARTS OF THE PICTURE ANDNOT ENOUGH ON OTHERS.
OR SO IT SEEMS. iM NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ANYONE..
I JUST CAN ACCEPT IT..
SORRY..

By: Tom Wharton

Tom Wharton — Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:02:12 +0000

The photo is real and the cockpit video is real…trust me.

Terrible shame, pilot error caused this but it goes to show even the best can have a bad day if not careful….thank god he walked away.

Tom Wharton (SMSgt Retired)
Thunderbird Production Superintendent 1988 to 1991

By: Kevin Merry

Kevin Merry — Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:11:16 +0000

Several answers to John Gull’s claim of the picture being a fake. Number one, the cockpit camera was angled up so you are not going to see the cars. It is called “Perspective”.

Number two, the pilot turned the jet away from the crowd, which positions the exhaust nozzel towards the cars which makes it appears it came from that direction.

Number three, about the energy. The jet is at a slight noise up Angle of Attack, BUT, it is still sinking. The pilot angles the jet away from the crowd but most of the energy still carries the jet down the runway and was never directed at the crowd at any time.

Number four, FAA regulation restrict overflying of spectators or any flight manuvers the place the spectators in danger. This is a result of the tragic accident in Germany which many spectators were killed as a result of a midair collision in which the energy was directed towards the crowd.

Number five, quit hating and chillout. Enjoy the photo for what it is.

By: DaveA

DaveA — Tue, 17 May 2005 18:36:08 +0000

If you watch the video, you can see his left hand go to the ejection handle three times before he punches out….he knew it was coming, but tried to save it until the last second.

By: Jay Mac

Jay Mac — Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:00:15 +0000

you’re right Jon about how calm the pilot was. generally in this scenario the only thing on the pilots mind is getting the plane back under control, or getting the hell out of it. there is no effort put into swearing or yelling. especially as he’s a military pilot it would have been a trianed response, he concentrated everything on his actions only. these responses are drilled into you, when the time comes you perform without thinking.

By: Barrie MacLeod

Barrie MacLeod — Fri, 01 Apr 2005 03:09:46 +0000

I was glad to see Barry Herron’s name in the comments. A few of us were recently leafing through some of the Canadian Sabre (F-86) books by Chick Childerhose & Larry Milberry. Barry did great Sabre photos!

By: Dave

Dave — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:45:25 +0000

Cracking Photograph! Well done.

By: Steven Crawford A1C US Air Force MHAFB, ID

Steven Crawford A1C US Air Force MHAFB, ID — Fri, 28 Jan 2005 02:03:39 +0000

The picture is real. I was their. I’m an F-16 Crew Chief. I work in the phase hanger and know exactly where the parking lot is. Oh and Paul. It is true there is a limit to how many Ejections a Pilot can have before they have to retire as a pilot. And it is only twice. Each time the Pilot Ejects that pilot will lose about a half an inch to their height. So The US Air Force only allows two ejections per lifetime.

By: Patrice

Patrice — Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:33:44 +0000

Ken:

I haven’t seen a website that has a photograph of the 1982 “Diamond Crash’ however the book One Desert Jet Turner available at http://www.jjetspress.com includes a detailed analysis of this mishap as well as an extensive bibliography of references that may be of value in your search.

By: Ken Stenstrom

Ken Stenstrom — Fri, 05 Nov 2004 03:14:20 +0000

Does anyone know a website that has a photograph of the Thunderbirds 1982 ‘Diamond Crash’ ?

By: Paul Murphy

Paul Murphy — Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:05:48 +0000

Ive heard somewhere that pilots are limited to a certain number of ejections before being grounded, due to the forces exerted on the human body, neck and backbone i imagine. Can anybody here give more info on this?

By: David Skinner

David Skinner — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:36:48 +0000

I would like to mention that all ACES II ejection seats are manufactured by Goodrich Aerospace, and several improvements have been implemented since they took ownership several years ago. This would include high speed ejections. This is not to take away from the efforts of the men and women of the USAF, but would like to see a little recognition for those who manufacture not only the seat bucket, but the rocket motor, propellant, etc.

http://www.upco.goodrich.com/

By: Ken Martin

Ken Martin — Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:17:53 +0000

Not enough credit has been given to the ACES II ejection seat which performed as designed, like a champ and has been responsible for saving many more lives, especially in low altitude ejections, and without the problems of back injuries of previous ejection seats. Kudos to the development, into production, by the Life Support System Program Office located, at that time, at the Aeronautical Systems Division, Wright Patterson AFB.

By: Dick Mays

Dick Mays — Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:21:09 +0000

I was very impressed with the power of the ejection seat, and the ability of the pilot to eject just before impact. I wish the Thunderbirds had been flying F16s in 1982, when I lost my brother in the tragic dimon formation accident.

By: Josh

Josh — Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:54:36 +0000

The photo is real. Some are doubting the validity because the jet looks like it is in level flight. Because of how the F-16 flies with its fly-by-wire system and other aerodynamic properties the jet flies at a certain Angle of Attack and the more the pilot pulls back on the stick or “G’s” up the jet the more angle of attack is induced. Angle of Attack is the difference between where the nose of the jet is pointed versus where the jet is actually going. So, the jet looks level but its actual flight path is still pointed at the ground. It would have appeared to someone at the show as if the pilot pulled the nose up to level flight but the jet was still sinking towards the ground. Another good point out by one of the above articles is the leading edge flaps are fully deflected. Also you can see the boundary layer separation indicated by the smoky looking air on the top half of the wings where the wings join the body of the jet. Both of these are indicative of an F-16 flying at a high ANGLE OF ATTACK.

By: Aarron

Aarron — Fri, 06 Aug 2004 17:11:00 +0000

So, did the pilot loose his flight status or is he still flying?

By: mike

mike — Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:54:33 +0000

Just a little info concerning the ejection photo and some of the past comments. Firstly to Mr. Trygstad the Pratt & Whitney engines in the Thunderbirds burn JP-8+100 fuel. Not JP-4. The USAF hasn’t used JP-4 in years. Secondly the “brain” of the ACES II ejection seat and also it’s installation in the aircraft allow the drogue chute to deploy almost instantly at that altitude. Props to the Thunderbird Egress shop. Thus proving that the picture is real. Plus I think it is well known that the jet was not in level flight by the video, but if you notice the leading edge flaps dropped severely, and the slight nose-up position of the horizontal stabs, the jet was trying to climb. In fact the flight control computer was still trying to correct the problem after ejection. Props to T-bird avionics. Finally it has been said that the crash was caused by pilot error due to an incorrectly set altimeter. The T-birds execute their maneuvers by a secondary clock mounted near the HUD that lets them know when to turn, flip, roll, etc. If the pilot followed this he would have rolled and started his dive like any other show with the altimeter not being too much of a factor. It has also been said that engine problems caused the crash. Which was most likely a compressor stall. This happens when the engine can’t control the air intake and basically chokes on air.

Mike
USAF F-16 Crew Chief

By: "aunt" betty

"aunt" betty — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

i hope that you don’t articipate in any of these air shows. of course, i’m not sure which is more dangerous, flying or driving.
love,
“aunt” betty

By: Jon

Jon — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Interesting to see how calm the pilot seemed to be through the whole thing. Of course, there’s not a lot of room to move and we couldn’t see his face or hear his voice. I would love to be able to see that video and hear his voice. Was there a “Holy Crap! I’m gonna die!”? or anything fun like that?

By: Bennie Davis

Bennie Davis — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I was the photgrapher on top of the control tower that took the picture you see above of the ejection. I was just wondering where did you get the image from? The image will soon be released through the Air Force, I see somehow it was leaked early.

Thanks!
SSgt Bennie J. Davis III
Still Photographer, USAF

By: Ron

Ron — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Bennie:

The photograph came from http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article968.html The photo can also be found in other places on the web, though surprisingly Google wasn’t much help in finding them. I do recall seeing a much higher resolution version on a web site, though.

Congratulations on capturing a truly fantastic photograph.

By: John Gull

John Gull — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

To: SSgt Bennie J. Davis III

The still image I’ve seen is a fake. There is a large area of parked cars clearly visible beyond the aircraft in the still image. There are no automobiles at all visible behind the aircraft in any frame of the in-cockpit video of the accident. Other than “I took it” please give me reason to believe that the still image is authentic (i.e. explain the cars and why a maneuver would be flown with energy directed downward toward them).

The image in question is posted here: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/winner1005md.jpg

The video is available here:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/190-full.html
and directly, here:
http://www.avweb.com/newspics/tbirdcrash.mpg

Thank you,

John Gull
Editor
iPilot, The Internet’s Aviation Resource
mailto:john@ipilot.com
http://www.ipilot.com

By: Ron

Ron — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I can’t speak for SSgt Davis, but I’m not convinced that the photo is a fake. The aircraft’s energy was not directed toward the cars or the crowd, the telephoto lense and zoom level just makes it seem that way.

If you look at an airport diagram for the Mountain Home AFB, you’ll notice that the tower is indeed located where he claims he took the photo from.

Take a look at this image: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/thunderbird_crash.jpg

Notice the runway orientation, the location of the tower, and the location of the photographer who took that picture. People were not located underneath the flight path, but off to the side of the runway. The cockpit video doesn’t show enough of the exterior to see what’s there, not to mention that it uses a very different kind of lense.

I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. But I feel that this image is authentic.

By: John Gull

John Gull — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

You are correct, sir.
The image is indeed authentic.

My apologies to SSgt Davis and those readers I may have influenced.

John Gull
Editor
iPilot, The Internet’s Aviation Resource
mailto:john@ipilot.com
http://www.ipilot.com

By: Zach

Zach — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Which would be none…